Re: In so wenig Text so viele Fehler?

verfasst von dottore, 17.12.2003, 16:51

-->Hi Ricardo,

da stimmt ganz Vieles nicht, sorry. Also kurz:

>Be that as it may, there are numerous, fully authenticated facts to prove the common, everyday existence of credit instruments and transactions as old as recorded history itself, that is from roughly around 4000 B.C.

Warum geht's mit Kredit los und die Keynes-Stelle über Money wird als Beleg angeführt?

>"Money," said Keynes in his Treatise,"like certain other essential elements in civilization, is a far more ancient institution than we were taught to believe. Its origins are lost in the mists when the ice was melting, and may well stretch back into the paradisaic intervals in human history of the inter-glacial periods, when the weather was delightful and the mind free to be fertile of new ideas in some Eden of Central Asia." (Keynes. J.M., 1930, A Treatise on Money, I, 13)

Die alte Vorstellung, schon lange unhaltbar, dass es"zu allererst" so was wie money proper gegeben habe, das dann"verliehen" wurde. In Zentralasien hatten sie gewiss nicht den Kopf frei, um"Geld" zu erfinden. Aus Zentralasien, genauer: Muschiston (Kasachstan) kommt das herrliche Waffenmetall Bronze.

>Credit and the Invention of Writing
>It was from this lost Eden that money, recorded credit and banking, as well as writing and our duodecimal methods of counting time and space--and of financial accounting--originated.

Leider handelt es sich bei dem accounting um SOLL/IST-Rechnungen über Getreide, Ã-l usw., die ältesten Piktogramme sind dazu äußerst aufschlussreich (siehe Nissen et al., Berlin). Da haben wir die älteste Schrift und das älteste 12er-System.

>If one were to speculate as to how writing first appeared one might dreamily imagine that romantic necessity or poetic inspiration were the causes rather than the prosaic need to record debts and credits--which in reality turns out to have been the actual source.

Diese debts hatten keinen credit - es waren Abgabenschulden.

>"Writing was invented in Mesopotamia as a method of book-keeping. The earliest known texts are lists of livestock and agricultural equipment. These come from the city of Uruk c. 3100 B.C." (Oates, J., 1979, Babylon, 15)

Das war mitnichten book-keeping im Sinne privatwirtschaftlicher Buchhaltung, sondern - siehe eben. Oates konnte die Berliner Forschungen und die"earliest known texts" z.B. ex Sammlung Erlenmayer (Basel) leider noch nicht kennen, da diese erst in den 80ern bei Sotheby's versteigert und dann von den Altorientalisten in Berlin veröffentlicht wurden.

>Literally hundreds of thousands of cuneiform blocks have been unearthed by archaeologists in sites along the Tigris and Euphrates, many of which were credit receipts and monetary contracts confirming the existence of banking and credit operations as everyday affairs, common and widespread throughout Babylonia.

Das ist richtig, aber belanglos, das sich diese contracts aus einem Zwang zum Ausgleich des SOLLS beim Unterschreiten ergaben.

>Categorical evidence regarding credit procedures is still available for our inspection in the Code of Hammurabi, inscribed some 3,750 years ago on a diorite block, over seven foot high, now in the Louvre in Paris.

Das war viel später, als die volle Kredit-/Schuldenwirtschaft bereits in Gang gesetzt war.

>Credit in Ancient Egypt: Grain and Banking
>Credit development in ancient Egypt, although based at first on royal temples and palaces, grew in time into a distinctive form of giro-banking based on deposits of grain.

Das grain haben private Kaufleute deponiert? Warum sollten sie es handeln, und mit wem, wo es doch die royal temples als staatliche Vorratshäuser gab, die mit abgeliefertem grain gefüllt wurden? Nicht mal in Mesopotamien gab es damals GATTUNGSKÄUFE.

>Thus, although some rudimentary elements of a giro system of payment had developed much earlier in Babylon, the honor for the first fully efficient giro system, enabling a nationwide circulation and transfer of credit, belongs to the Egypt of the Ptolemies. The numerous scattered government granaries

Da sind sie: Staatsdepots.

(...)

>The Invention of Coins and the Development of Coin-based Credit
>Economics is the logic of limited resource usage, and money is the means by which that logic is put to work. Coins formed the basis on which most payment and credit systems have been built during the last 2,700 years. The matter of when coins were 'invented' depends very largely on whether one is concerned, as is the economist, with function, or, as is the numismatist, with outward form, appearance, and quality.

Das alte Elend: Warum wurden die größten Münzen wohl zuerst"erfunden"?

>Functionally speaking, the early Chinese 'tool-money' currencies-- miniature emblems of spades, hoes and knives--were in common use in China as early as the end of the second millennium B.C. Round coins, of poor quality, cast, and of base metal were produced in the next few centuries, by which time coinage of a far superior type, using precious metals and hammering techniques, had been developed in the Middle East.

Warum bloß"spades, hoes, knives"? Es gibt schönes Beilgeld, Spießgeld (obolos), Helmgeld, Sklavenkragengeld, usw.

>Coins in Lydia and Greece
>In quality, range of functions, and influence on the rest of the world, Lydia as the birthplace and Ionian Greece as the nursery of coined money have undoubted priority over China. Two interacting factors may account for Lydia's leadership, one on the supply side and the other relating to an unusually strong demand for media of exchange. Supplies of precious metals were locally available from alluvial deposits of?electrum', a mixture of gold and silver.

Das alluviale Elektron war nicht zu vermünzen, habe selbst so ein Stück aus dem Pactolos bei Sardeis.

(...)

>Gresham's Law
>Credit multiplies money by supplying flexible dimensions of time, space and convenience of form, but all these depend vitally on the quality and strength of the money base, whether in ancient or modern times. Thus the famous Athenian silver 'owls,' first minted in 546 B.C. became by far the most widely used coins of that era and lasted almost unchanged in design and purity for 600 years. The supply of silver ore came conveniently from the Laurion mines, 25 miles south of Athens, where up to 30,000 miners were employed another example of the economic importance of coinage. When the Spartans captured Laurion in 407 B.C., Athens suffered a sudden and severe shortage of coin. She reacted first by minting 84,000 golden drachma from the statue of Nike and similar treasures but, when the shortage grew even worse, she issued bronze coins with a thin coating of silver, giving rise to the world's first public statement of Gresham's Law in Aristophanes' play The Frogs.

Warum hat Athen die Nike eingeschmolzen und Goldmünzen geprägt, wo man sich das hätte sparen können, indem man gleich gefütterte Münzen herstellen konnte? Ich habe selbst so ein attisches Goldmünzlein aus just -407 (Gutachten: Prof. P.R. Franke).

(...)

>Chancellor Kohl and Alexander the Great
>The most important financial result of Alexander's imperial adventures was the monetization and diffusion of the vast, relatively dormant gold and silver reserves of the Persian empire. Alexander's armies, including many mercenaries, were well paid.

Der Söldner macht das Geld kurant, nicht ein imaginärer, praemilitärischer,"friedlicher" Handel. Die Alexandermünzen (auch Price, 2 Bde Corpus, kannte der Autor leider noch nicht: Tetradrachmen so weit das Auge reicht.

Rest darf ich mir mit Einverständnis sparen. Danke + Gruß!

Man wird bei solchen Quellen automtatisch misstrauissch (NACM!). Etwas mehr Distanz kann nicht schaden.

Thread gesperrt

 

gesamter Thread:

• Credit: 6,000 Years Old and Still Evolving Vigorously - Ricardo, 17.12.2003, 13:44
  • Re: In so wenig Text so viele Fehler? - dottore, 17.12.2003, 16:51
    • In so viel Text - immer der gleiche Fehler:-) - R.Deutsch, 17.12.2003, 18:01
      • Re: In so viel Text - immer der gleiche Fehler:-) - dottore, 17.12.2003, 18:32
      • Re: In so viel Text - immer der gleiche Fehler:-) - CRASH_GURU, 17.12.2003, 18:46
        • In so viel Text - immer der gleiche Fehler:-) - R.Deutsch, 17.12.2003, 20:45
    • History of Money - Ricardo, 17.12.2003, 20:57