off-Topic: Mescalero & I.E., die Herren Minister Trittin und Fischer

verfasst von dottore, 23.01.2001, 00:33

Da der"klammheimliche Freude"-Text von"Mescalero" in der Debatte um Herrn T. eine Rolle spielt, aber niemand sich die Mühe macht, da etwas tiefer zu bohren, hier ein Hinweis aus der Britannica:

>Apache

farmer-raider Indians of the North American Southwest who, under
such leaders as Cochise, Mangas Coloradas, Geronimo, and
Victorio, figured largely in the history of the region during the latter
half of the 19th century. Their domain extended over what is now
east central and southeastern Arizona, southeastern Colorado,
southwestern and eastern New Mexico, western Texas, and, in
Mexico, northern Chihuahua and Sonora states. This distribution is a
recent one. The ancestors of the Apache (and the Navajo)
apparently were from the far north, for the Apachean languages are
distantly related to other Athabascan languages spoken in Canada.
These ancestors probably did not reach the Southwest until AD
1000 or later. Some Apachean peoples are known to have been in
the Southwest prior to the 15th century, but as late as 1700 Plains
Apache farmers were still living along the Dismal River in Kansas.
With the introduction of the horse, these and other Plains Apache
were severely pressed south and west by the Comanche and Ute.

>Culturally, the Apache are divided into Eastern Apache, which
include the Mescalero (da sind sie!), Jicarilla, Chiricahua, Lipan, and Kiowa
Apache, and Western Apache, which include the Cibecue,
Mimbreño, Coyotero, and Northern and Southern Tonto or
Mogollon Apache.

>Characteristic of both Eastern and Western
Apache, with the exception of the Kiowa Apache (see Kiowa), was
the lack of a centralized tribal organization. The band, an
autonomous collection of small local groups within a given locality,
was the primary political unit as well as the primary warring and
raiding unit.

*** Ah, klingt just wie die 68er organisiert waren."Small local groups". S.E. der Herr Minister des Auswärtigen spricht inzwischen sogar von einer Art Palette von WGs in seinem Haus. Und wie er damals"raidete", konnten wir anhand diverser Bilder gut studieren. In Kampfstellung den Bullen erwarten, diesen auflaufen lassen und dann druff! Und die"Autonomen" - sie sind immer noch well & alive!

>The strongest headman of the local groups was
recognized as an informal chief, and several bands might be united
under one leader. Chieftainship was thus not generally hereditary.

*** Klassisches Grünen-Prinzip bis heute."Informal chief" der Grünen ist wer wohl?!

>The Apache subsistence pattern was based partly on hunting and on
gathering wild plant foods, partly on farming, and partly on raiding;
but the proportion of each varied greatly from tribe to tribe.

*** Raiding. Ja, das ist die just die"Gewalt", von der man sich inzwischen"distanziert" hat. Und die Idee mit den"wild plant foods" - klingt wundervoll nach"naturbelassener Nahrung" (womit sie sogar Recht haben).

>The Jicarilla farmed fairly extensively, growing maize and other
vegetables, but also had adopted part of the Plains Indians reliance
on bison hunting. The Lipan of Texas, who were probably originally
a band of Jicarilla, had largely given up farming and were, therefore,
more mobile than the Jicarilla. The Mescalero (da sind sie wieder!) were influenced by the Plains Indians, but their chief food staple was the mescal plant (hence the name Mescalero).

*** Damals Mescal, bei den 68ern Haschmich. Der beste Mescal heute: Gegend um Oaxaca, besonders Mitla. Und wo bleibt mein schwarzer Afghan?!

>The Chiricahua were perhaps the most nomadic and aggressive of the Apache west of the Rio Grande, raiding into northern Mexico, Arizona, and New Mexico
from their strongholds in the Dragoon Mountains. The Western
Apache appear to have been more settled than their Eastern
relatives, with considerably more emphasis on farming, though they
did raid, frequently with various Yuman tribes.

*** Raids, raids, raids!

*** Und: MOST AGRESSIVE!

*** Und da kommt die Pappnase T. daher und will uns erklären, der Mescalero-Brief sei eine"Distanzierung" von der Gewalt gewesen.

*** Der Mann tritt Wahrheit und Gemeinwohl mit den Füßen!

>Although the Apache wars were among the fiercest fought on the
frontier, the Apache had attempted to be friends of the Spanish, the
Mexicans, and, later, the Americans. As early as the 17th century,
however, Apache were raiding Spanish missions, and the Apache
may have been partial instigators of the Pueblo Revolt of 1680 (see
Pueblo Indians). In 1858 a meeting between Americans and
Chiricahua Apache took place at Apache Pass in the Dragoon
Mountains, resulting in a peace that lasted until 1861, when Cochise
went on the warpath. This marked the beginning of the Apache and
Navajo wars, a quarter-century confrontation between U.S. military
forces and the Indians of the Southwest.

>Despite their adept use of swift horses and their knowledge of the
terrain, the Indians were outmatched by the superior arms of the
federal troops.

*** Heute:"Superior arms" of German Government...

>The Navajo surrendered in 1865 and agreed to
settle on a reservation in New Mexico. The Apache ostensibly
followed suit in 1871-73, but large numbers of warriors refused to
yield their nomadic ways and to accept permanent confinement.
Thus, intermittent raids continued to be led by such Apache leaders
as Geronimo and Victorio, evoking federal action once more.

*** Das waren dann die"Ausläufer" wie RAF... Auch"Stadtnomaden" passt nicht schlecht.

>The last of the Apache wars ended in 1886 with the surrender of
Geronimo and his few remaining followers. The Chiricahua tribe was
evacuated from the West and held as prisoners of war successively
in Florida, in Alabama, and at Ft. Sill, Okla., for a total of 27 years.

*** Das Strafmaß für die RAFler hat sich inzwischen als milder dargestellt.

*** Wir werden also wieder Mal vera...t!

*** Wo bleiben die Jüngeren von uns? Wir Älteren wissen längst Bescheid.

Gruß ins Dunkel!

d.





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gesamter Thread:

• off-Topic: Mescalero &amp; I.E., die Herren Minister Trittin und Fischer - dottore, 23.01.2001, 00:33
  • Re: off-Topic: Mescalero - aber die Fairness gebietet es - nereus, 23.01.2001, 09:12
    • Re: off-Topic: Mescalero - aber die Fairness gebietet es - Dr. Quandt, 23.01.2001, 10:21
      • Re: off-Topic: Mescalero - aber die Fairness gebietet es - nereus, 23.01.2001, 12:20
    • Auf jeden Fall - BF, 23.01.2001, 10:21
      • Entschuldigung.. - black elk, 23.01.2001, 10:52
        • Re: Entschuldigung.. - Uwe, 23.01.2001, 11:15
          • Re: Entschuldigung.. - Baldur der Ketzer, 23.01.2001, 11:56
            • Re: Entschuldigung.. - Uwe, 23.01.2001, 12:13
          • Re: Entschuldigung.. - black elk, 23.01.2001, 14:02
            • Re: Entschuldigung... - Uwe, 23.01.2001, 15:31
              • Re: Entschuldigung...Zerbrecht euch doch nicht die Köpfe... - Cujo, 23.01.2001, 16:33
                • Wo Du es gerade ansprichst: - BF, 23.01.2001, 17:05
                  • Re: Wo Du es gerade ansprichst: - Baldur der Ketzer, 23.01.2001, 18:08
  • Tagchen Dottore, ich wusste ja gar nicht, daß Du Dich auch an... - Spirit of JürgenG, 23.01.2001, 13:39
    • Re: Tagchen Dottore: Etwas in diesem Sinne wollte ich ihm auch schreiben.... - Josef, 23.01.2001, 13:51
    • Re: Hallo, Geist,... - Baldur der Ketzer, 23.01.2001, 14:27
      • Geist an Ketzer - Spirit of JürgenG, 23.01.2001, 16:01
  • Re: off-Topic: Mescalero &amp; I.E., die Herren Minister Trittin und Fischer - almoehi, 23.01.2001, 14:55